The Impact of LGBT Parenting on Children's Well Being

Dawn Stefanowicz is an internationally recognized speaker, author and media spokesperson. On her website, she has provided news articles and research since 2006, and is a full-time licensed accountant (CPA). Through her book, “Out From Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting,” Dawn acknowledges that children are impacted long-term by various family structures and living arrangements. She addresses legislation affecting children and advocates for children and families.

Dawn begins by sharing her experiences in being raised by a homosexual father, where she was exposed to confusing, inappropriate and abusive sexual examples in the home from the time of infancy. She talks about some of the alarming evidence that shows how same sex parenting is detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the children involved in these relationships, which goes against the commonly accepted narrative from the Left that this is not the case. She also stresses that redefining marriage is just the beginning of a growing movement to normalize all forms of sexual practices. We look at how this forced acceptance of genderless relationships breaks apart the fundamental basis of procreation and parenting, and when children are involved, whether through natural conception or IVF technology, there is a painful loss of identity created by having one gender rejected.

Further, Dawn emphasizes what the LGBT movement has left out is what children really need and gain from growing up with a primordial family unit. Then, she describes the political climate of Canada, where publicly discussing issues related to same sex parenting or homosexuality can get one charged with a “hate crime.” In conclusion, we weigh up the ramifications of the state interfering with the moral values and education of our children and the rights of natural parents.

Transcribed Text

[Transcribed by Ken Adachi: Since this is a recorded interview, the English sentence construction isn’t as formal as it might be in a written exposition. However, the importance and value of the testimony compelled me to type out a transcription to allow wider distribution among English readers and permit electronic (and human translator) translations into other languages. To make the text easier to read and translate into other languages, I eliminated the false sentence starts and habitual pause interjections such as “uh” or “you know” while the speaker is trying to decide exactly what to say.]

[Transcribed by Ken Adachi: Since this is a recorded interview, the English sentence construction isn’t as formal as it might be in a written exposition. However, the importance and value of the testimony compelled me to type out a transcription to allow wider distribution among English readers and permit electronic (and human translator) translations into other languages. To make the text easier to read and translate into other languages, I eliminated the false sentence starts and habitual pause interjections such as “uh” or “you know” while the speaker is trying to decide exactly what to say.]

Lana (Red Ice radio host): Welcome new and regular listeners, this is Lana joining you for the next hour. I’m happy to have you. I’d like to talk about what we’re not allowed to talk about. These are the things we should be scrutinizing with a microscope. The things the establishment tells us not to question. We know what these topics are. One of those is the myth that children of homosexual parents are no different from other children and suffer no harm from being raised by homosexual parents. My guest today will discuss this myth and as you probably guessed, she’s quite controversial. Why? Because she wrote a book called Out From Under, the Impact of Homosexual Parenting. In fact, Dawn Stefanowicz could be charged for a hate crime in Canada for writing this book. So it was published in America which is still surprising. She’s even received death threats for this book. Dawn is a kind, intelligent woman and she doesn’t spew hatred of any kind.

And although she’s a Catholic, she’s isn’t preaching on whether gay is right or wrong. In the book, she shares her very personal story of being raised by a gay father, and how it impacted her life, family she was exposed to, different gay subcultures, explicit sexual practices and other behavior no child should be exposed to. And it affected her for many years. But as it turns out, this is a story shared by many other children who grew up with same-sex parents. You see, in the entire subject of gay parenting and surrogacy, nowhere are people asking about the rights of the children. Is it good for the children? How are children being impacted?

In fact, these days we’re told gay parents are actually better parents than a man and a woman. Somehow Nature didn’t get it right. The conversation that no one wants to objectively discuss is: what kind of family is best for the children? If you ask this question, you are a “bigot” and a “homophobe” and must be silenced and iced out of society. But this question must be dissected and studied from every angle scientifically. I don’t come from this from a religious perspective and people that listen to me know my stance on homosexuality. But I come from this from a nature-based biological perspective. Let’s talk about why children who grow up with same-sex parents have more anxiety, depression, suicide, are more likely to be abused or have been molested; more apt to engage in unhealthier habits such as sleeping around, drugs, smoking. They suffer from more unemployment, less education and need more public assistance

As possible future gay parents, it’s not a time to be selfish and think only of yourself. But to think of the child you are bringing into the planet via surrogacy. A child that will not know his or her true mother or father. This is cruelty because the harsh truth is: without science this would not be happening naturally. The biological truth is that gay sex is recreational, not procreational. But the fact is, the effects of being raised with two daddies or two mommies is a subject that also involves biology, psychology, social, emotional and legal ramifications. When will adults stop being selfish and ask what is best for the children?

We’ll discuss this and much more with Dawn,...coming up

Lana: Hi Dawn, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Dawn Stefanowicz: Thank you Lana, thankyou for inviting me.

Lana: Well, you’re a brave woman who I respect because taking this conversation public in our current political climate is not an easy task. But people need to realize you were the victim and yours is a story that is never heard. Is it?

Dawn Stefanowicz: It isn’t. You know for any child to go public it is extremely risky, personally and professionally. Uh, you know I’m a Canadian, but uh, you know there are risks for me because of our laws here. But I’m worried about the United States and other countries when they legalize same-sex marriage or genderless marriage, it eliminates and restricts a number of our freedoms.

Lana: That’s right and I’d remind people as we get going in this, that this topic, it’s bigger than people’s religious doctrines or views on homosexuality. It’s about what’s good for the children and how it affects them mentally, physically, spiritually. We know the negative impact of children who grow up without dads and also withour moms. But all of a sudden we forget that when it comes to homosexual parenting. Right?

Dawn Stefanowicz: It’s true because I mean, you know people try to diminish the fact that man-woman marriage is traditional. And when we look at the impact on children long-term, who’ve lived through cohabitation, divorce, single-parenting, step-parenting and especially after remarriage , foster care and adoption and even, children that have come through reproductive technologies and surrogancies. When you get to same-sex parenting, you know, definitely kids are going to struggle with a number of issues coming out of any area of brokenness, but especially when you’re denied the respect and the freedom to be able to share what you really, really feel inside.

Lana: That’s right. And today all you hear about is “human rights” but seldomly do we hear about children’s rights or what’s good for the children; not just what the selfish adults want. And we often hear that children grow up just as well-adjusted in homosexual homes, as in heterosexual home. So did your childhood experience in a homosexual home reflect that commonly accepted message?

Dawn: You know, I don’t follow the LGBT talking points and so I would say that the impact for children is quite negative overall. I’ve heard from well over 50 adult children that grew up in a same-sex parented household and they have experienced depression, all different types of stressors. About 30 percent of us self identify as second-generation, whether that’s homosexual, bisexual, or even transsexual, transgender. There’s a number of things we have to deal with long-term and you know it takes us until about our late twenties, early thirties before we can begin to understand how this has impacted us.

Lana: Now, what was it that caused you to wake up to this impact that you’ve endured?

Dawn: Part of it is, you know, I really didn’t have the maturity, as a child, to really comprehend what was going on. Why, from infancy, my father had different male partners that were in the home. And I also was taken into the developing GLBT subcultures in Toronto Canada. This would have been late sixties going into the early seventies, before there was that political correctness that you now see with the GLBT, LGBT movements. But you know, our brains as human beings don’t stop developing until we are in our mid-twenties and it’s by then, our frontal lobe of our brain can now actually judge what we feel about things; what we think about things and start reasoning and assessing where we’ve come from; where we’re at now, and where we’re going. And unfortunately, you know, by my late twenties when I was ready to begin to address my thoughts and my feelings around growing up in a homosexual household, I had already made a number of big decisions around relationships, my academic and career goals, and so forth.

Lana: Well, I think we should get into that and wanted to ask about your mother and father. So what was your relationship like with them for people who don’t know your story?

Dawn: Well, my parents married in 1960 and on the outside it looked like a traditional relationship. And my twin brother and I were about 10 months old when my father brought a male partner to live with us for about five, five-and-a-half years. And so, from that point on you know, my whole infancy, I don’t remember ever a time where my father didn’t have, at least one male partner in his life. And so people would have seen different males coming and going from the home. They also would have seen children which would have been my two brothers and myself. Now my younger brother was conceived, a few years after. And my twin brother and I, you know, came on the scene and at that point my parents stopped all sexual relations. And that meant that only homosexuals sex was going on in my home from the time I was about two and a half years of age.

Lana: So your mom still stuck with him even though he was, he came out as being gay?

Dawn: Yes, and what people don’t understand when you grow up in a homosexual household, we will have different types of family structures. And so we may not be represented in a census, if that is done, because they will usually ask you know, the husband and wife: or the adults in the home; and how many children; and some general questions. But they don’t necessarily go into “who are your sexual partners? Who are you currently having sex with?” You know, and “are these people living in your home?”

Lana: Yeah

Dawn: And that doesn’t get represented in a lot of the census taking, nor in the research.

Lana: Well, I know this is an intimate question, but what kind of sexual example where you exposed to in the home?

Dawn: I saw lots. There was nudity I did see some sodomy. I saw and heard a fair bit of things that would relate to sexuality. There was pornography. There was different types of inuendoes that were made of a sexual nature in that environment and when I also associated within the subcultures around my father and his partners, there was a fair bit of nudity there as well. There was also more than just hints of sado-masochism. There was also, what I would consider to be pedophilia in the sense that a number of the men around my father, including my father, were attracted to minors. You know men that were just coming into adolescence; young, basically boys, just hitting about the 12 - 13 year mark. And they seem to have a special fascination for teen boys.

Lana: Yeah, you know, this has been coming out more and more actually. There’s been some recent cases, but I was also reading on your side on how the public is unaware that there’s actually a growing movement within psychiatry to actually normalize all forms of sexual practice, including sex with children. Correct?

Dawn: Yes. You know if you look at it in certain countries. If you look at Germany as an example, they’re teaching that between zero and age four, children should be masturbated and learn about masturbation. And then from about age four onward, learn about sexuality and gender. And so there is a sexualization of children going on

And it’s being pushed into different countries, different parts of the world. And it’s not really about equality and love. It’s more about taking children hostage in a way where they’re emotionally and psychologically and mentally going to be obsessed. And you know, controlled by thoughts and feelings that they otherwise would not have experienced.

Lana: That’s right I know that in first grade now they’re even teaching some kids about you know graphic sexual positions, and gay sex and it’s like in FIRST grade. I mean who thinks about sex in first grade, you know?

Dawn: Well, this is it, you know. Now, the Left are not concerned about morality or ethics. And, you know, in the situation I grew up in, it was a boundlessness around sexuality and gender, gender identity. And that created a lot of confusion for me. I’m sure there was a lot of suffering and a lot of struggles that I had, that I would not have had in a different kind of environment,

Lana: Now, do you remember what you were feeling and what was going on in your head when you were seeing some of these things around you?

Dawn: Well, I was exposed to sexuality beginning in infancy. And so I was actually sexually abused beginning as an infant. And so was my twin brother. And so I had nightmares for about seven years. And I had a major speech impediment as well for about seven years, between the ages of three til almost ten. You can’t tell that now, but you know, after six years of speech therapy, plus an additional five and a half years, because of a family member with a level of deafness. You know, when you had close to a dozen years of speech therapy, you know, it’s very hard to now, uh, pick up some of the major struggles that I had as a young child growing up in this environment

Lana: Well, did your atmosphere confuse you sexually growing up because I know many gay parents actually encourage, they want their children to be gay and I had a friend who grew up with two moms and they were always encouraging him to be gay so eventually he got a boyfriend, But he told me that he didn’t even know if he really was gay. So did you ever come across any sort of confusion?

Dawn: Yes, definitely. I mean, I remember by the time I’m 8, 9 years of age, my father’s telling me that I can be whatever I want to be. And I can wear boys clothes, men’s clothes. My hair, you know, I can have it cut differently. He really was about exploring this idea of balanced gender. It wasn’t really something where, uh, “Dawn, you’re a girl. You’re going to grow up and be a woman.” You know, there was a lot of confusion around gender, around gender roles. In fact, I had thought that maybe it would have been better if I been born a boy than a girl because at least I wouldn’t have been feeling like a door mat and stepped on, and diminished See, I never felt that I was loved, valued or seen as important in my kind of environment, surrounded by gay men.

Lana: So did you try and seek out some kind of attention from men, almost looking for a father?

Dawn: Yes I did. I mean at age three, I am consciously turned away from my father looking for some level of replacement. There’s a real emptiness inside. You know, people can’t understand it. They think, you know “You had a gay father, so what are you worried about?” “What were you actually missing then?”

But his attentions were not on treating me like I was something special. He was totally caught up with the men in his life. And that’s where he spent his energies, and his time. And so I didn’t feel anywhere close to him in the sense of being loved and valued. I know he did love me, you know, deep down, but he didn’t have the ability to affirm me because I didn’t see him loving women.

Lana: Yeah,

Dawn: I didn’t see him loving my mother. And when we as children don’t see our parents being loved, and being loved by the opposite gender, that is extremely confusing for children because it makes us.,,we actually absorb that kind of negativity in that environment.

You know, being surrounded by just basically men; not normal heterosexual couples in my situation. It had a profound negative influence on my sense of sexuality and gender identity.

Lana: And sadly he passed away; correct? Your father?

Dawn: He did. In 1991, I was in my late twenties. And he passed away of AIDS. And, you know, we realized that, that was a very strong possibility. But about five years before he died, and we had confirmation that he died; that he had died of AIDS. And a number of his partners also died of AIDS. And a few of them are mentioned on the AIDS Memorial in Copley Square in the gay village in Toronto Canada.

Lana: Well, do you know other people who have lived with homosexual parents and how did their experiences differ from yours?

Dawn; You know, it’s interesting. The majority of us had a fair bit of instability in our family structure and in the adults that were coming and going from our home environment. I know two adult children that grew up in a situation where there was some level of stability in that their mother was in one relationship with another woman for quite a length of time, that those relationships existed. And so, outside of that, I have not seen that level of stability, and a lot of multiple partnering going on. And when they look at the research, they found that only 2 out of 15,000 adult children that have grown up with a parent that had had at least one same-sex relationship, only 2 out of 15,000 grew up from basically in the first 18 years of their lives, with their parent involved with one other same-sex partner. So the majority of us will have a fair bit of instability.

Lana: And it’s very difficult for little kids. I just think of when I was young, thinking of my parents breaking up or divorcing. That was really heavy for me to think of at that time. So children are really fragile.

Dawn: They are. You know, there’s this lie out there about children that we’re somehow very adaptable and strong. And that we can handle basically anything the world throws at us. And that isn’t true. We have to do our best at coping with what we’re living with. And then we have to assess it as we’re ready to and not everyone can. It can be too difficult for a lot of adults. And so that’s what you find. I mean the adult children that have contacted me often have difficulties with trust and intimacy in relationships. This is male and female. You know, girls who have grown up with gay fathers tend to have a great deal of difficulty in trusting men

I found with boys that have grown up with a gay father have often experienced molestation as children. Whether it was their father or one, or more, of his male partners. And they’ve also struggled with settling down with just one other person. And you know, you have to imagine what it’s like when you see your parent involved with different partners, even if they’re partnered for a time with one partner, it doesn’t mean it’s monogamous. There’s a fair bit of, like in my father’s situation, he shared... even though he was partnered, he and his partners shared certain relationships/ And they also went out and cruised individually by themselves.

Lana: Yeah, not all of course, but generally the gay lifestyle; it is full of partying. There’s lots of drugs. There’s lots of sleeping around and other drama. But how do you respond to those who say: “Yeah, but yours is just one experience and there’s many monogamous gay couples.”

Dawn: I haven’t seen that level of monogamy that other, you know, people will put out there. Again, children when they grow up in this environment, they share. When they feel safe, they share the details of what it’s actually like. And it doesn’t seem to match the talking points that you’ll hear from the other side. You know, research bears it out. I mean they look at homosexual relationships. And they found that..,they couldn’t find any partnered men over a five-year period that were exclusively monogamous during that five-year period of time. And I was reading a recent New New York Times article and it was about men who legally got married to their same-sex partner and what they found is that in 50 percent of those relationships, these men opened up their relationships to other sexual partners within the first year

Lana: Yeah it’s funny to me how generally there’s been a lot of gays that looked down on and mocked marriage in traditional family unit. But then here they are trying to have that. And trying to copy that. It’s funny isn’t it?

Dawn: Yeah. In Canada, when we had same-sex marriage legalized - this was in July 2005. It was really interesting to us statistically, is that over 95 percent of those that could potentially have gotten married, only like under five percent actually tied the knot. And we actually had more licenses being given to international couples than Canadians. And so it was actually used, when it came into Canada and was legalized same-sex marriage, it was used by international couples to take it back to their own states and countries to, you know, create court challenges to see if they could have their relationship recognized in their own state, in their own country.

Lana: Yeah, I was wondering why is it so important for them to be
recognized, if marriage is ultimately about between two people? Why did they need the state involved so much? Have you thought about that?

Dawn: I have. No, I’ve testified in nine US states, in the Fifth Circuit, and at SCOTUS [Supreme Court of the United States]. As well in three areas in Canada and also internationally, in other countries, including Argentina and Australia and Paraguay. And what I found is that, there’s..., they will also bring up the argument about federal benefits, visitation rights when one partner is hospitalized or dying.

Lana: Uh, huh

Dawn: Also, inheritance rights. All of these things can be legally, uh, agreed to for whatever relationship someone has; so there are ways to go about that. I think it’s more about having forced acceptance of various types of relationships. The problem you have is in genderless relationships; that’s really what it is about. Creating a situation where the government, you know, the nation recognizes say, same-sex marriage, but it’s really genderless because it could be a transexual marrying. Whether it’s another transsexual or a transgendered person. It could be a situation where there are, you know, say a man with two women and they consider themselves bisexual and they could have the same kind of arranged marriage legally recognized by the government if they use the very same arguments of the LGBT movement.

Lana: Now, are you concerned with the legislative attempts to basically redefine marriage is an institution unrelated to children?

Dawn: Well, you know, I don’t believe you can separate marriage from procreation. Whether or not married couples, as husband and wife, can actually have children or not. Or do you have children or not. That isn’t the question. Fact is that when you have children, they are connected naturally, biologically to their father and to their mother. And you cannot create children in a petrie dish, and then say to them: “you don’t have a mother” or “you don’t have a father,” but you have this parent or these legal parents. A child knows, you know, deep down intuitively that they have a biological father and a biological mother and will often spend a good deal of their life looking for your own identity and their own security in their biology.

Lana: That’s right.

Dawn: With their parents

Lana: Yeah, and if we get real about this, without IVF [in vitro fertilization] and surrogates, this wouldn’t be happening naturally; which brings me to my next point. You, of course, knew your father and mother, but what about the kids who were born from an egg or sperm donor and who will never know who their true ancestors are. Have you heard from people who grow up this way?

Dawn: Yes I have. There’s Anonymous Us. There’s some other interesting blogs that are managed by children that have grown up never knowing either of their father or their mother. In most cases, it’s a sperm donor father. And they do really, really struggle with who they are and they feel like they’re missing half their identity. And that, they don’t like the idea that the adults in their life made a decision to permanently deprive them of at least one of their biological parents. And there’s a great deal of psychological and emotional struggling that goes on. And the other challenge that they have is they potentially could be attracted to a half sibling, you know, someone who was conceived artificially using the same sperm donor.

Lana: Uh, huh

Dawn: And in some cases they found, in certain communities where the sperm donor was used between 150 and 300 times.

Lana: Wow.

Dawn: So potentially, I mean, you do have communities of, as an example, of lesbian women who conceive children using the same sperm donor and the children actually play together as half-siblings

Lana: Wow. Well, what about, we’ve talked about two fathers, but what about the effects of growing up with two women?

Dawn: You know, you have to look at, first of all, the sex of the child, whether it’s a boy or a girl growing up with two women. And I don’t want to limit it to women because there is a greater chance that that relationship will end and there’ll be other relationships. Uh, for the daughters, I think she would, you know, from my discussions with adult children that have grown up with lesbian parents, the girls tend to grow up with this idea that they can do all things themselves and that they don’t need men. The reality is, when these adult children have grown up and married the opposite sex, they realize: “Oh my goodness. this is what I missed out on” And they, it’s like: “This is what a dad is supposed to do and be there for” And, uh, remember the testimony of Heather Barwick for the SCOTUS brief, and she realized what she was missing from watching her own husband. And how he was involved with her children. And just the raising of the children. Actually, “Oh my goodness, this is what I’m missing “

Lana: Yeah

Dawn: Uh, it’s very, very painful realization. And also the fact that you do come to the reality that as a girl growing up, uh, and you become a woman. That .., you know, society might be telling you and the lesbian community might be telling you: “you can do anything you want, be anything you want, do it all, and that you don’t need men.” But it’s a painful reality that you come to and you go...you know what? We’re not like men. We need men.

Lana: That’s right.

Dawn: And, uh, for boys that grow up, it can also be very confusing for them because they miss out on the role model. And what we have is: in our situation, when our parents are partnered with the same sex, the partner tend to take on pseudo gender roles

Lana: Yeah, they do.

Dawn: And so, we’ll be told: “okay, gender is not important. Gender roles are not important. You could be any sexuality you want; any sexual orientation you want; any gender you want. It’s boundless. “ At the same time, mimiced, right in front of me, is my father with a male partner and they all seem to have these traits: kind of more feminine traits, more submissive. And they tend to do cleaning and cookingm and certain things you’d expect of, you know, the mother in the home or the woman in the home

Lana: Yeah, it’s pretty funny

Dawn: And so, it’s a really weird thing when you start to see this pseudo gender substitution going on. And for a child growing up in this, you feel like: “Oh my goodness, like why on earth wouldn’t you just ask for the real thing?

Lana: (laughs)

Dawn: That’s the real thing. That’s what your parent’s same-sex partner is going to be doing Children see right through it. They see this idea of equality as it’s being really inequality because you don’t have equality between the genders. You don’t have male and female that are equal.

Lana: Yeah, yeah.

Dawn: You don’t see male and female being equally loved, equally valued, equally seen as important. And I apologize if I seem repetitive on this issue, but I’m restating it because it’s a very, very deep, uh, painful thing to have one gender rejected in your deepest relationships you could ever have, which should be both with your father and your mother. You should be able to see father and mother as husband and wife, father and mother. You should also be able to see interactions with your brothers and sisters, with your parents, both genders being represented there. You need to see all of that. Those family relationships are very vital to your understanding of who you are and how you connect within your own family. And creating these fake families, because they really are fake families, when you have, you know, a parent that is involved with different same-sex partners. Those are not your real parents. Even if you call that same-sex parenting

I could have an auntie or grandma come over and do pretty well the same things, except they’re not going to be having sex with my parent; hopefully not anyway, in the bedroom. You never know these days with what people are asking for recogntion of . But it’s just..., there’s something incestual in this for a child though, because you know, you grow up and you relate to that same-sex partner almost as if they’re an older sibling. And at the same time, what looks or feels like an adopted older sibling in your family, is actually having sex with your parent. It’s really an odd way of looking at it, but I never looked at any of my father’s partners as a parent. I looked at them, the only way I could really view them, was as an older sibling

Lana: Yeah, it’s interesting how the Left is just.., they’re just out to., they want to destroy the family unit. They have to destroy biological gender roles. They’re pushing, you know, shows like Modern Family, The New Normal. It’s just an all-out war on just the primordial family unit. Something we’ve had for thousands of years on this planet. So what do you think their real motive is behind that? Are they just out to destroy things? Or where is this coming from?

Dawn: I don’t think that the LGBT movement overall, the membership that belongs, actually know what’s going on. But I think there’s a fraction that use the LGBT movement, that are really about dismantling the family and bringing in state control. Because if you look at a number, what you have a number children that come out of this kind of brokeness. And when you grow up in a same-sex parented household, you truly start to lose your relations, or your connections to your relatives, and your ancestry within the first generation. You know, my children are growing up without ever knowing grandparents. They’re growing up without ever knowing what it’s like to have that extended family related to them. And a big part of that is because my father put so much of his energy and his time, his whole life, into his same-sex relationships. He really, really put my brothers and I at a much greater risk of losing that intergenerational support that we would have when we got married and have had our own kids. And so, it just takes one generation to separate us from our biology, from our ancestry, our roots

Lana: Yeah, not a good thing.

Dawn: We know what divorce does. We know it doesn’t work for kids. We understand that even when a stepparent comes into the home and is trying to do everything [that] he or she can in the family unit, that still is not the biological parent. And so we need to be truthful. We need to be honest about the relationships that our parents are involved with because that impacts us as children going forward. And you know, I believe that as much as possible, children need to be raised by their biological father and mother, who are married - as much as possible.

And I do know there are foster care situations and adoption situations, but even with children that come out of foster care and adoption, that they’re best to be raised by adoptive parents that are representative of married father and mother. I have looked at foster care and adoption and the risks for children is a much higher degree of there being psychological and emotional issues going forward. Even though they grow up, you try to place children in the safest, most secure home environment. These children are at much higher risk of a whole bunch of issues. Children that come out of reproductive technologies, surrogacy and so forth, [have a] much higher risk of psychological issues, risk of cancer, physical and mental disabilities. And the children are also [at] much higher risk when they grow up and want to have children to be infertile. So that, you know, we’re really playing with Nature and trying to be God in creating these artificial family structures and living arrangements that are not biologically tied together. And it’s sad. It’s very, very sad. And I know there’s always going to be exceptionalties. I understand that. But to be actually out there saying: all family structures are equal and will create good outcomes for children? No, that isn’t true.

Lana: Have you looked into the many studies on the importantance for children to have both their biological mother and father? Because I know there’s even crucial hormonal interactions from having both parents.

Dawn: There is. You know when I’ve looked into it...To be fair, when I did is....First of all, I looked at one man, one woman marriage. Then I looked at cohabitation of biological parents. So the biological parents have not tied the knot. They’re cohabiting. There’s a much higher risk of violence; like physical violence and emotional violence in the home. A much higher risk in a cohabiting, biological situation that the children will lose connection with at least one of their parents. And the children tend to have, you know, more sexual activity at earlier ages when their parents relationship.. you know, when these children do not grow up, are not born into and raised in a marriage, a married father-mother situation, just cohabiting, these kids don’t do as well. You look at children of divorce. You see that you know, I mean Judith...uh, I’m trying to remember her last name ... but this person Dr. Judith, she did research over 25 years. And what she found was , I think it was Wallerstein. She did research and she found these children are still dealing with the ramifications of divorce twenty-five years after their parents divorced.

Lana: Wow.

Dawn: You know, you look at fatherlessness, You look at..what, eighty-five percent of incarcerated men are fatherless. And we wonder why they got in trouble with the law and they dropped out of school. And they had issues with alcoholism and drug addiction and so forth. You know, we look at single parenting and even the best intentions of parents. And there are kids that somehow make it through and all of these areas of brokenness. We look at single parenting and we know these kids don’t fair as well, economically. We know that they are at much higher risk of early sexual activity and so forth. And so you move on and you move into remarriage and stepparenting, the children often struggle with the new parent that now is their stepparent. And it’s challenging when you bring two families, two broken families together under one roof. It isn’t exactly the Brady Bunch. But anyway, and then when you get to gay parenting and all the different ways that children, like myself. come into these situations, we are, I mean, obviously conceived heterosexually but we have compounding issues because our parent can have opposite sex sexual relationships and same-sex sexual relationships. And they can actually swing back and forth between heterosexual and homosexual relationships even throughout our childhood and into adulthood. Now, my father, remained in homosexual relationships throughout my early childhood, into my teens, into my twenties. And when, you know, before he died, I didn’t see him involved with other women. But my understanding is that for many of us we can have this, our parents, flipping back and forth. That there isn’t this stable sexual orientation that that the Left likes to present. You know, there’s like eight definitions for lesbianism and there’s only one definition for lesbianism that actually is exclusively lesbian. When Loman and other researchers began looking at human sexuality in the mid nineties, the research there showed that the majority of men who say they’re gay, have had and will have opposite sex sexual relationships. They found the same thing with women. The women said they were lesbian, have had, and will have, opposite sex sexual relationships.

Lana: Hmm

Dawn: So it’s really, really confusing for me growing up because I didn’t look at people under these titles of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual, transgender. You know, questioning and so on. I didn’t look at people under those labels because I saw this whole experimentation going on where people were not necessarily labeling themselves. That is later. That came after there was this political/legal revolution to change family structures and to destabilize children from their biology. And that really has to do with selfish adult desires, not just sexual desires. But treating children like commodities, and removing them from their ancestry and their roots. And trading them back and forth based on the highest bidder and the most power that you have. You know, there’s a number of people that cannot have children naturally, but if they’re heterosexual, you know, it’s just you know that’s an issue for them. But anyone else, they’re going to be in for a trial (?) because biologically speaking, there’s no chance that they can ever conceive. Two women and two men can’t conceive naturally. And children, you know, we’re real human beings and we begin to recognize that the images that we were made into doesn’t reflect same-sex. It reflects male and female. That we need both for our own identity and for our own development. We need the complimentary genders interacting with each other in our growing-up years for us to truly, truly value who we are as human beings. And I think that’s what the LGBT movement has left out is what children really need. So they basically came out with the talking points and if you as adult child start speaking, as I have, about what it’s like to grow up in this, they often will threaten us.

Lana: Yeah, I bet you’ve been really attacked because this is like the ultimate taboo. You can’t talk about this at all. No one ever even questions. That’s out of the question to talk about it. So how have you been dealing with that?

Dawn: Well, you know, you get hate mail. You get verbal threats. And you get written threats. And in most cases, you know, if this was being done to, someone who was either gay or lesbian, they would have the person who’s making these threats and saying these vulgar things against you, they would have made sure those people were charged. But in my case, when I get all these email threats, bad emails and vulgar emails, I haven’t gone and asked for any one of these people to be charged or investigated.

Lana: Exactly. Yeah, well that’s just it. People keep saying”equality,” but now it’s they’re the protected group and people such as yourself have no protection legally? I mean, I’m hearing that
you know people keep saying “equality” but now discrimination against churches and pastors seems to be state sanctioned. So if you deny same-sex marriage in your church or you share your religious views on homosexuality, you can actually be charged with a hate crime.

Dawn: Yes.

Lana: I know Canada is pretty forward on that aren’t they?

Dawn: We are. In fact, I’ve had pastors confess to me that they have received, whether they’re phone calls or emails, basically saying that someone is sitting in their church..Usually they’re educated and they say they’re gay, And they say, you know, I really like being here, but if you say anything opposed to being gay or anything about the kinds of relationships I have, I just want you to know. I’m kind of putting you on notice.I’m going to be sitting in on the sermon and listening. And if you say anything I disagree with, I am going to make a complaint.

Lana: Wow

Dawn: And so pastors are being threatened and they are being silenced. And we have a fair bit of our denominations, and unfortunately. it doesn’t matter whether one is Catholic, Evangelical, or Protestant. A fair bit have become very politically incorrect. Politically, they’re very, very careful in what they’re saying. They’re trying not to say anything that would... a person who, say they’re a lesbian, would find offensive. And so, yes we do. We have human rights commissions. In British Columbia, we have a Human Rights Tribunal. So everyone of our territories and provinces are basically overseen by these human rights commissions. We have a federal Human Rights Commission that over three decades had a hundred percent conviction rate. And what you’ll find is, sexual orientation is a protected category. So if you are heterosexual, I just want you to know, that you are not under that sexual orientation protected category

Lana: Yeah, exactly

Dawn: So, you are “equally” protected in law. The Human Rights commissions are not run by real lawyers, judges and juries. They’re basically kangaroo courts. However, they have the power to, human rights commissions have the right..well, the power really, to enter your home, confiscate your laptop, computers, cell phones and files, looking for “hate crimes.” And even at our borders, where you have customs, there are materials that have been stopped at the border: books, DVD’s, and the like. I know there was a sodomy documentary put out by a Russian film company. And that was confiscated at the Canadian border being carried over by.., his name is Peter... he’s with Americans for Truth, and he was shocked that they confiscated the sodomy DVD when that is available and accessible on Youtube in Canada.

Lana: Yeah, they’re pretty full on up there right now, It’s pretty shocking. I Canada was just peaceful and calm, and respected everybody but it seems it’s just a one-way tolerance, huh?

Dawn: It is a one-way tolerance. And the only way to get around it really is to take a stand. And yes, there’s risks, but people understand.This is not about heating anyone. This is about freedom of speech. It’s something that in a true democracy everyone should have. And you know, I happen to have a Polish last name which means that in our family, going back, there was communism. And under state control, in communism, you have empty shelves. So you can’t easily access all the food you would need or you’d like to have. And when the food’s available, you stand in line - blocks and blocks at a time - and you wait until the bread, you can get your local bread or your meats, or whatever it is that has just came into the store. As well, in people under communism, you had to be very careful what they said about their political leaders. And they had to be careful they didn’t put down their government leaders, their political party that was in power. They had to be careful what they wrote. They had to be careful because they could be fined and they could be inprisoned and some were killed. And so, if you remember what it’s like to live under that kind of state control, that kind of regime, that takes away your freedom of speech and also restricts your religious freedom to the point that you can only go to the state-approved churches. You can’t go to the underground churches. You cannot freely worship and you cannot, you know, publicly express your faith, in your business or in any public places. So your worship, your religious freedom is restricted to a few hours on Sunday in a state-approved church. Well, coming out of that . Now when people come into Canada, they’re expecting that there will be more freedom here and they’re absolutely shocked that all this kind of language and discussion is banned in Canada publicly. Whereas, you know, if you go back to different parts of Europe, people are very aware of what it was like to live under a state regime and how restrictive speech was and religious freedom was restricted. And therefore they express all sorts of feelings and thoughts around political and religious topics. You know, and so they can’t imagine that any country, through human rights commissions and hate crime legislation would want to ban speech and protect certain categories of people under a special label. It just doesn’t make sense.

Lana: Yeah, I wonder if eventually, because they keep redefining everything, and the control, just more and more, against certain groups. Seem to might even redefine who a parent is or might even come and try and take your children away because you’re teaching them “hate”. Right?

Dawn: Well, this is it. In Canada, when same-sex marriage was legalized, the majority of Canadians did not have a clue that parenting was redefined immediately with same-sex marriage. And so, what happens when Canada’s gay marriage law bill C-38 was passed through and became legal, it included a provision to erase the term “natural parent” and replaced it across the board with gender-neutral “legal parent” in federal law. So now, all children only have “legal parents” as defined by the state. And by legally erasing biological parenthood, in this way, the state ignored and ignores the children’s formost right to know and be raised by their own biological parents.

Lana: Yeah, this is scary stuff. I always wondered too what the long-term effect would be, like let’s say, in the future if they went far enough and it’s like, utt, “the state raises your kids. There’s no such thing as a primordial family unit.” What kind of humans beings would we become?:

Dawn: Well, this is it. In Canada, as parents, you can expect state interference when it comes to moral values, parenting, and education. And it doesn’t just happen in school. We have some school policies in place that use a term called “school climate.” And what that means is that the child in school is bound by the regulations of the school board within that school and beyond. So wherever that child travels, as a student of the school, that child’s “school climate” around him is like a bubble and it walks with him; it goes with him. So he gets on the bus and he says something that the bus driver finds “hateful” or “hurtful” towards a particular group of people, that bus driver actually has to report, write that down, and report it to the
school principal within a day.

Lana: Wow

Dawn: That the school needs to be “aware.” So policing of speech by students, by the teachers, and the administration, and by the bus drivers, and the school counselors and social workers, and even the caretaker at the school. Well, that policing of speech continues on with the child when that child leaves the school and goes to the corner store, variety store, to pick up a snack or a pop. It also travels with the child on field trips. Also if that child meets with other students at the local mall or goes to a movie theater or a number of them or a few of them get together as friends after school, or at a child’s home, the “school climate” is traveling with that child throughout the child’s whole day;

Lana: Un huh

Dawn: not just at the physical location of where the school exists. And so.with that “school climate” it means when a child comes home and opens up his or her laptop or starts using their cell phone or starts communicating on a social network, that child’s speech and anything the child writes, anything the child posts, in photos or illustrations, all of that can be policed under the “school climate” which means even the parents can be investigated if somehow the school finds out, ...

Lana: Unbelievable.

Dawn: that the parents said something that’s in conflict with what the state is supporting.

Lana: Wow. This is like a dystopian sci-fi movie. So any tips for how to raise your kids in this kind of climate? Because I know we’ve got that and then we got the cultural Marxists on the other side. So how are you raising your children?

Dawn: I tell you what. I home schooled for a number of years. I’ve done all sorts of interesting things, but I home schooled. And one thing I would say to anyone who’s home schooling. They don’t have to be Christian, Catholic, religious at all. They could be Jewish or secular. It doesn’t matter. I would recommend anyone and everyone that’s home schooling to join Home Schooling Legal Defense Association. For that nominal fee to educate your child at home, that membership with HSLDA will offer you a level of protection like nothing else. They will defend you if you’re in a situation where the social worker or supervisor comes from the school or from the government to your door. They will actually give you legal advice on how you’re to handle that situation. And we do have.., we call them Family Services or Children’s Aid. We do have government employees that can potentially come to your door and investigate. They may be looking for “abuse” they say and I put that in quotes. And that “abuse” could be you teaching your child something very different, that they really disapprove of. And so it’s very, very important to have a community of people where you have connection and protection under HSLDA membership. The other thing that I would recommend too, is be very watchful and careful in who you are associating with. Be careful what you say publicly.

Lana: Yeah

Dawn: You have to you. You know, the other issue that we have is, because we are just “legal” parents now in Canada under same-sex marriage, and we have only been “legal” parents for the last ten years, the state does have the power to enter our homes if they feel there is a reason to do so. And we saw that happen with an Orthodox Jewish community, who actually, the majority of them left Canada because of state interference. Because they were not teaching curriculum to their students, to their children, that agreed with the state’s curriculum.

Lana: I thought that Jews were very protected in Canada

Dawn: Well, this is it. You know, they will go after the vulnerable small groups first. They will go after individuals and families and groups that may not be as protected as other groups. In the sense, they’re not as assimilated within the community and don’t have the network of support around them. This is the challenge, that if you see vulnerable groups having to leave the country, then you understand, as parents, how long will you have your freedom as a parent to be making the choices to teach your children certain values and beliefs, and your faith, in the privacy of your own home?

Lana: That’s right.

Dawn: How long will you have that freedom before someone knocks on your door. And if you’re a careful parent, you have to always be prepared for that in Canada under our hate crime legislation and under same-sex marriage; and with our Human Rights Commissions and Tribunal. We are at risk, we’re at a higher risk, and so we must be very careful before we open our front door.

Lana: And we have to remember that what kind of future are we creating for our children if we don’t fight this now? I mean, think of where your grandchildren could be living. I just had a couple of more questions for you. What would you say to other adults who have grown up like you? They’re learning to cope with their parent’s choices and they don’t know how to handle it?

Dawn: Well. I would say face the reality of it. It’s a lot harder to do than what I just said. It takes time. But if you truly want to be sane and a decent person in the sense of being able to cope with stress in day-to-day life, you have to deal with the past. You have to sift through it and love your parents. Appreciate them Value the different men and women that were in your life growing up, whether you agreed with them or not; whether you liked them or not. Really, just look at everyone as a valuable human being and love them. At the same time, recognize where there’s losses, those permanent losses and defficiencies and recognize that our whole identity is not just wrapped up in our sexuality and gender. That is very, very important to our identity, but it’s not all that we are. We’re much bigger than that. And that any inclinations that we have, that doesn’t have to become our identity. Also, forgive those people around you that have hurt you. It’s really important to practice forgiveness on a daily basis. I know that there are people that are Christians, Catholics, that believe in forgiveness. But I would say, whether you’re religious or not, forgive, Really, I mean so you don’t have to carry that bitterness around with you. And the third thing I would say in going forward is to make the best choices possible going forward. Life is not perfect. Life has its challenges, but you can live day to day and enjoy the beauty around you and appreciate the people in your life. You can love more deeply and more intimately, when you have faced the reality of the painful past when you’ve forgiven those that hurt you and when you move forward in making the best choices possible.

Lana: I’d encourage everyone to buy your book too and help support your work because you’re doing important work. But I wanted to ask you: Why is your message so critical now”

Dawn: Well,I’m this is not really about ego. I was compelled to write when I got home in 2004 after testifying before Canada’s senate of legal and constitutional affairs on the hate crime legislation. I was compelled to write my book because I felt like, “oh my goodness, they’re going to make it a hate crime that I came up and say something that hurts the feelings of certain men and women around me. Or, you know, men or women that are like my father who was involved with same-sex partners and so I thought I’ve got to write down my story. People have to understand what it’s like for a child to grow up in this. So I wrote Out From Under, The Impact of Homosexual Parenting and I publish it in the States because for a number of reasons. The major reason is I wasn’t sure if Canada would allow my book across the border. And we don’t have the distribution network that the United States has. And our postal system charges probably double to triple what you charge in the States. And so, I thought my book would be more accessible being published in America and I also felt that with my story out there, that more adult children would come forward to share their stories which is actually what’s happened. And that legislators would take a step back and really consider before they changed laws around marriage, [to] really consider the impact on children. So that was really the purpose of my book and I state that in my preface. My book can be read in just a matter of a few days, but I would recommend people take coffee breaks because there are difficult passages in the book. And especially if someone is an adult child that this could hit home in a number ways very personally. And I also recommend if people have issues, they’re still very stressed about it, if they have anxiety issues, or any other risk factors, that they seek counseling and get the kind of support that they need and that would respect their faith values and their beliefs around sexuality and gender, marriage and family.

Lana: Well Dawn, please share your website details and also let people know how they can get your book and any upcoming speaking engagements you might have

Dawn: Well, I have a website I’ve had since 2006 and it is filled with news articles and research. It’s a very simple website. It’s not flashy . It’s not one of those expensive web sites, so when you go there, it’s really triple W
my first name and my last name so it’s triple W dot Dawn, D-a-w-n and then my last name, which is S-t-e-f-a-n-o-w-i-c-z

And if you can’t remember my last name, just put in “Dawn” and then “out from under” and you’ll be able to find my website. I’ve done a number of articles. I have done different media interviews, but as for speaking engagements, because of the political and legal risks, with what I am doing publicly, I usually do not announce publicly where I’m next speaking

Lana: Yeah, it makes sense.

Dawn: But if you’re associated with an event that is hosting me, they will tell you about me. I don’t even send out emails to advise where I’m going next, what I’m doing. And the reason for that is because we have anti-spam legislation and I’m not spamming anyone, but I could imagine that there’d be some people that want to easily take me down with a five hundred thousand dollar fine if I sent out an email and someone said “You know, I really didn’t sign up for this. I don’t want this” And so, I cant afford it. I don’t even put it on Facebook or Twitter where I’m next speaking because it’s extremely dangerous. There are risks when you’re sharing publicly what I share publicly and I’m only really speaking up for the child, for the children and sying they need to be raised in the best environment possible and that is, you know, a married father-mother household and it doesn’t mean that every household out there is going to be perfect. You know every marriage has challenges, every family has challanges, but we need to give children the best start we can in life. And we need to be real and not create fabricated ideas and try to brainwash children and say that every family structure out there, no matter how broken, it’s going to be good for you. We have to be honest because children do soon realize what they’re missing and they don’t need to be permanently deprived of either a mother or a father who’s biologically related to them. Children really, really need that connection going forward; that history; that ancestry; that heritage. Not just biologically, but their heritage, their religious background; their ethnicity, and the differnet nationalities that are connected in their history. They need to know that. They need to know the culture they came from

Lana: Absolutely.

Dawn: It’s very important to our whole identity and of course on the biology side, there’s going to be mannerisms and certain physical features that we have. All of that is so important

Lana: Very good. Well, thank you Dawn. I know you’re busy so we appreciate your time

Dawn: Thank you Lana. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and all the best to you and thank you for your courage in addressing some of these very challenging topics today.

Lana: Well, it's no secret, Leftists are destroying personal freedom to choose how we raise our children, how we want to live our life, and who we want to associate with. What does the phony Right have left to conserve? It's all being taken away by force. and still, they worry about looking like fascists. Well, sadly these people won't make it to the next level of evolution. These are serious times, folks. It's dire straits. We need to start becoming self-sufficient, less dependent on the system. How can we reorganize our lives to become more self-sufficient because it's a matter of time before you can't get access to what you need, especially if you're cut off for a "hate crime." Who can you buy property with? What business can you start up? Where's our co-op? What food can you grow? Where's your brotherhood or your sisterhood you can call up when you need them? Where is our tribe? Its time to become tribal and think tribally in everything we do. Is it good for our people should be the question on our mind at all times. Is this ensuring the survival of our European children? The difference with Europeans is we think long-term. Can you see the long term of where this is going? What are you doing now to leave your legacy for your future children? Pull out of public school. Can't afford it? Well, damn it make some sacrifices: sell that second car or go out to eat less. Connect with the home school network. Make it happen. The children are our future. We must raise them right and armor them with truth. Nature is on our side and there's nothing more powerful than Nature.

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